I would like you to assess the performance of SIECs since its establishment. Let me bring you back a bit historically. Before SIEC, there was SEC in the 1979 Constitution, during the time of Obasanjo, but most of the state governments at that time did not allow it to operate, they preferred ‘caretakership’. Then the 1999 Constitution established SIECs, State Independent Electoral Commissions that again, some State governments used, but quite a number of state governments did not do anything.

Then during the time of General Abubakar Salami, he reestablished SIECs, which is what we have today, quite a number of states did not use this institution for the conduct of their local government elections, most of what they did was use caretaker chairmen to be in the saddle of the local governments.

However, it is the recent judgement by the Supreme Court that the funds will now go directly to the local government that has made most of the states to reestablish, to energize their state Independent Electoral Commissions so that they can conduct local government elections. That was why I said let’s go back to history from 1976 when the local government reform started, the 1979 Constitution, you had the States Independent Electoral Commission that did not function that later during the time of Abubakar, we had the State Independent Electoral Commission.

Those who drafted the Constitution in their wisdom put the word, ‘independent,’ so how independent is the commission?

Well, that is difficult to assess, but from what we can see, from what is happening, quite a number of these institutions before now were not totally independent, but because if you talk of independence, you look at independence from the perspective of what happened in INEC or what is happening in INEC. INEC will bring his budget and the governor will fund the budget from the first line account of the federal government. It didn’t happen like that at the state level, I don’t know whether it will happen in the future.

Independence has to do majorly with financial independence, I think it was the lack of financial independence that ruined the independence in accordance with my understanding of what happened at that time, but it is a little bit different now, for example in Osun State you wouldn’t find a governor talking about SIEC, you hear about SIEC directly from the chairman of SIEC which is an element of independence that augurs well for the establishment and for the conduct of local government elections.

In one of your write ups, you mentioned that the next local government election in Osun will be free, fair, and credible. Does that mean the previous local government election in the state had not been free, fair, and credible?

Yes, there is a write-up from me which I said we probably would have for the first time in the history of Osun State, a free, fair, and credible election. You will find that three of those elections were challenged in court and the court said Yes.

The first challenge had to do with the number of days that had to be given before an election was conducted, that was the first challenge, the most recent challenge has to do with contravening one of the sections of the Electoral Act 2022. That was the basis why that election was thrown out. If any aspect of the constitution, if any aspect of the electoral act, if any aspect of the rules and regulations that guide any particular election is contravened, even if that election is conducted, it will be thrown out when it gets to court.

Elections have to follow some legal frameworks, most of these legal frameworks- the Constitution, the Electoral Act invoke,  which is 2022 Electoral Act, rules and regulations, the Code of Conduct, judicial pronouncements, and even judgement from courts, all of these are basic guidelines, the basic legal framework for any election, once there is contravening, the election would be thrown out when it gets to the court designed for such purposes.

Most Nigerian politicians always contest the outcome of elections, they don’t accept defeats. Why is it always like this?

It is a normal thing among most of us Nigerians that we don’t accept defeat at the first stage. But I have observed having worked for over 30 years that if the electoral body is assessed to be sincere, is assessed to be neutral, is assessed to be credible, the outcome of elections is usually accepted, once the electoral body is tainted, politicians are likely not to accept the judgement of the electoral umpire, even if the electoral umpire is right, the court will eventually determine in final terms who is right who is not right.

I accept your views that most politicians will not accept defeat at first instance, that is why the electoral process has a way of having, after all the elections, even if you have a certificate of return, you will not consider yourself as duly elected because, if you are challenged in court, you can lose that certificate of return, so that is the position. Most politicians don’t accept defeat at the first instance but they have a final instance at the court, once the court says the election is free and fair or a particular candidate has been elected there is nothing anybody can do.

After the court declared President Bola Tinubu as the winner of the last presidential election, some people are still insisting that the election was not credible. I want you to suggest a way to forestall a situation like this in the near future?

First and foremost, their insistence is not useful. Their insistence is null and void, and their insistence is not of any importance to the electoral process. There are built-in mechanisms to ensure that politicians really can say whether an election is credible or not. One of the ones that I encourage politicians to do is to have agents in all polling stations, if a political party cannot have polling agents in polling units, it has accepted defeat in one way because poll agents or polling agents regardless of the name you gave them are supposed to be the ears and eyes of political parties, and once political parties are not represented fully, they can’t report what happens that is why most of them lose at courts and we tell them, we consultants tell them, it is only you poll agents can represent you in the court. You can’t call somebody who did not participate in an election to come and represent you.

What you hear in public is totally different from what happens in the electoral process, what happens at the electoral process, once the process has been rigidly followed, once the process has rigidly adhered to the rules and regulations set out in the legal framework, anybody can say anything, it does not make any meaning.

The contention that the president was not duly elected does not hold any water in any electoral rules and regulations.

I want you to reflect on the 2023 election, were there flaws? Could something have been done differently? Which areas do you think the INEC should work on?

In any human endeavor you can’t have 100 percent perfection, that person will not be a human being. But once you have what the law says substantial agreement with the rules and regulations which to me as an expert in electoral matters, INEC did establish, well that was why the court ruled in favour of the president.

I’m sorry to say, this is a simple fact, most of them who comment do not understand the electoral law. Most of them who comment, do not understand the electoral process, that is why, we encourage, both INEC or OSSIEC at the local government to relate with the public, to do some voter education, and to do some civic education, most of them who shout or even write in the newspapers don’t know what the rules are whether the rules are followed or not followed, what they think of is how big is this person? What big pocket does he have? These do not matter in an electoral process, it is the extent to which you follow the rules and regulations, and the law allows that once you follow the rules and regulations, substantially, even not 100 percent, and once you are declared by the institution that conducted the election, and once this matter is challenged in court and the court and the courts says this is alright, nobody on earth can reverse this.

Would you recommend option A4 to INEC? Some people have said that it is a bit more transparent than the open secret ballot.

A4 is not an electoral system. It was just a device that was used by Babangida to select presidential candidates at that time. A4 to me, I’m sorry to say,  is a crude method for selecting candidates that you have to line behind your candidate and they have to count.

You saw the anomalies, one, two, three, 30, 40, 50, no, the electoral method suggested an open ballot which has been modified by INEC as an open secret ballot, you cast your vote in secret and you drop your ballot in the open. I don’t think anything can beat that for now.

That method you mentioned was not an electoral method, I don’t recommend it.

Will there be a free and fair election in Nigeria in which everybody will accept the outcome?

Maybe I will answer that question differently, first as human beings can we all sleep and put our heads and legs in the same area? No, but once the electoral body is neutral, once the electoral body obeys the rules and regulations, once the electoral body trains its staff, once the electoral body follows the method it says it will do,  it says it will follow, and once the public sees that the electoral body is open and neutral, I think substantially, I think the public will accept whatever verdict it comes out of it. But once the electoral body is tainted, once the electoral body shows any partial tendency, it is likely that the outcome of the election they conduct will not be accepted. That is why neutrality is the first virtue of any electoral body. That will be followed by transparency, and that will be followed by all other virtues that will ensure that electoral bodies perform their actions or their activities without favour. That is probably why some say the federal government should not appoint members of the election management bodies, but who will? Except we will go to the moon.

The essential thing is that once the populace sees that the election management body has carried out its function without favour to any particular person, people, or candidates or a politician party, the outcome of that election will be fully accepted.

Some people have mooted the idea of having INEC to conduct local government elections. Would you subscribe to that idea?

I have written.  I don’t hold any position anywhere, I’m retired but I have written because I’m interested in the electoral thing. I’m of the view that INEC or another body should not conduct the state or local government elections. I’m of the view that the local government elections should be conducted by the State Independent Electoral Commission. Why? Those appointed at INEC are Nigerians, even if you establish another commission; it will be the Nigerians that will conduct it. What I think should be done is to strengthen SIECs to be able to conduct credible elections. How can you strengthen SIECs? Let them get their funds directly from the first line of account of the state government, if they do that, they will be like judges. Are there no cases against the state government in the court? It is because of the independence of the judges or the judiciary as a whole, that if the funding of SIECs comes from the first-line account of states, it will eliminate that.

Two, if the appointment of members of the State Independent Electoral Commissions is effectively done, and personalities are screened, men and women, people of timber and calibre, they will be essentially independent.

There is this theory I’m evolving in electoral matters, it is a pound of flesh theory, once the voters, electorate, or people in the state discover that you are doing the right thing, they will give you their pound of flesh, once they discover that you are not doing the right thing, they will take their pound of flesh from you and this they know they can do on the day of the election. This can also happen in the selection of members of the State Independent Electoral Commissions, even if members are listed without solicitation, the public will write about people who have stained their reputations, and once they write and there are complaints, they would be removed from members of the board.

So personally, based on my experience and retrospection, I have concluded that states should be allowed to choose their states’ independent Election Commission members and this should conduct local government elections.

Apart from that we are talking of federalism things that should be on the exclusive list and things that should be on the exclusive list and things that should be on the residual list and there are things the federal government should do, appointment of members of INEC, there are things that the state government should do, appointment of members of SIEC, that is even related to the state police matter, to say police will be misused by the governors, can the president also do the same? These are the arguments to me that are not rational enough.

Once you fund SIEC, once you choose men of timber and calibre, professionals, who know their onion and once you allow the public to intervene in the choice of these people, I think they will do the right thing.

This to me is what happening and once we allow them to do the proper training, you know the election is not an event, is a series of things that will culminate into an event, and if you ensure that all these things are properly arranged, it is not what happened on that day of an election that will ruin the affairs.

I think that SIECs should be allowed to operate and do their activities.